Small Brave Moves for a Life-Changing Field, with Nicole M. Bianchi

Season 5, Episode 8

[Intro music]

[Intro]

[0:09] Teresa Huizar:
Hi, I’m Teresa Huizar, your host of One in Ten. In today’s episode, “Small Brave Moves for a Life-Changing Field,” I speak with Nicole Bianchi, leadership coach and author.

In our culture, when we think of examples of leadership bravery, we often think of huge risk and very heroic images. Hollywood reinforces this with movies like Sully, about a pilot that landed his plane on the Hudson River, or war movies—really, too many to even name. And business TED Talks and articles likewise focus on turnaround artists or grandiose start-ups.

Now, once we set aside the fictionalized accounts of gutsy leadership, how do we know what bravery in leadership really looks like? Nicole, as you will hear in our conversation, argues for something more real and within the reach of every single leader: the next small brave move.

What could that look like for us as child abuse professionals? For our organizations? And for our MDTs [multidisciplinary teams]? And how might we change ourselves and our agencies and the system for kids by making successive small brave moves? I know you’ll find this conversation as thought-provoking as I did. Please take a listen.

[Intro music begins to fade out]

[1:34] Teresa Huizar:
Hi, Nicole. Welcome to One in Ten.

Nicole Bianchi:
Thank you so much. Thanks for having me.

Teresa Huizar:
So I’m wondering for those who haven’t yet read the book, although I know they will, I just wanted you to have a moment to talk a little bit about sort of how you came to this work, not just specifically around bravership, which we’ll get into in a moment. But more just sort of generally, how did you come to work in coaching and leadership development?

Nicole Bianchi:
Yeah, I worked inside two Fortune 300 companies for about 16 years in a variety of HR organizational development type roles. And I realized in all the work that I was doing, the work that I loved most was when I had an opportunity to change, alter, kind of transform those transformational. And it seemed early on in my career, I was always kind of tossed into the, “Go fix this.” “Go make this better.” “These leaders need something. Go work with them.” And that became the most rewarding work.

So I had the opportunity—I kind of paused about 11 years ago and said: OK, if I’m going to do it, I’m going to do it now. And so I took the leap and started my own business focusing in specifically on leadership development. And in that work I began to notice, which was not uncommon when I worked inside as well as outside, that the common missing element with leaders was bravery. And so we would work hard on building skills and giving them tools, and then we put them right back in their environment and they were fearful, right, of trying on these new things or having the tough conversations or challenging the status quo. And I found that if we could be a bit braver in the moves that we made as leaders, it would actually create a competitive advantage for us and we could accomplish a bit more, right? Begin to manage our fears, and our influence would definitely go up.

[3:19] Teresa Huizar:
It’s hard to imagine why someone would want to become a leader if they don’t think they’re going to have to take some risk along the way. What do you think that’s about?

Nicole Bianchi:
You know what, I think people think that either you’re born with bravery or you’re not, and there’s varying degrees that are kind of like instilled in you. And what they don’t realize is, it’s an acquired behavior.

Teresa Huizar:
Mm-hmm.

Nicole Bianchi:
And those leaders that invest in acquiring that behavior—and what I mean by that is like they, they do kind of—that’s why “small brave moves” is—they begin the frequency, right? I’m going to increase my frequency in some of these small moves that will increase my confidence.

And when people start thinking about it a little differently, because the word—it’s interesting, when I even started talking about the word “bravery,” people have it built up to be like this iconic move, right? Where it’s, like, reserved for only big heroes [laughter] that are doing outrageous things.

And I was like: Well, wait a minute. Well what—is there any bravery left for the rest of us?

Teresa Huizar:
Yeah.

Nicole Bianchi:
Like what about for us normal individuals? I don’t think leaders realize, when they are in that kind of individual contributor role, just how much bravery their leaders have to do to be successful in the roles that they’re in. Some may see it if their leaders are more transparent. Some may not if the leaders use it as a protection mode and don’t share that.

[4:35] Teresa Huizar:
Let me ask you this. Why the term “bravery”? As you say, people do have this image in their mind of bravery as, you know, the person who rescues someone from a burning building or, you know, runs into a fire, whatever, you know?

Nicole Bianchi:
Right.

Teresa Huizar:
So why did you select that? I’m just curious.

Nicole Bianchi:
I wanted to make it attainable for everyone. I wanted to shatter the false belief that bravery’s only reserved for a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. In fact, if we use it on a more frequent daily basis, that it compounds and can turn into something so much more for us.

So that was a very intentional move on my part. I wanted to dispel and let them know that, hey, even you and I, right, there are brave moments that we can have really often in our lives and not just maybe that once-in-a-lifetime opportunity.

[5:22] Teresa Huizar:
And I would say that’s true really for all staff and not just people who have the title of leader.

Nicole Bianchi:
Yes.

Teresa Huizar:
But that’s also true that, you know, this work calls for a lot of bravery first and last.

I’m just wondering, you know, what do you feel like—when you have talked with leaders, when you’ve done your coaching—what do you think holds people back?

I don’t think people want to think of themselves as not brave, right?

Nicole Bianchi:
Right.

Teresa Huizar:
Especially when situations present themselves. So why is it that leaders can struggle with bravery?

Nicole Bianchi:
It’s fears. And the top three fears that I see in leaders are fear of not being perfect. Like I don’t have it all figured out and it’s not right. So somebody will figure out that, you know, I’m kind of a fraud or, or I don’t have all the answers. So that fear of not being perfect is definitely one of them.

The other one is the fear of change. The issue with that is, change is going to accompany us throughout our life, right? And so fear of change.

And then the third one is fear of loss. Like, if I do this, I may lose out on my role, the relationship, a project—it could be anything. And so fear of loss is that third one.

But what individuals don’t understand is, those types of fears are learned fears. And they actually are irrational and develop over time. And they can be relearned. And so recognizing when that fear kind of creeps up for you, when you’re like, “Ugh, I—” you know, identifying: What is it? And then what are some of the moves, right? What mindset, habit, or behavior do I need to have to lean into that fear so that I can, um, embrace it and not run away from.

[6:54] Teresa Huizar: One of the things that I was noting, and I don’t remember which chapter it was in the book, but it was talking about the role of curiosity—

Nicole Bianchi:
Mm-hmm.

Teresa Huizar:
—in all of this. Can you just talk a little bit about that?

Nicole Bianchi:
Yeah. When I think about curiosity, the one question I ask, especially in coaching or leadership development when somebody’s talking about an issue or trying to kind of resolve something that’s happening around them. The number one question I ask is: What are you most curious about in this situation?

Or—

Teresa Huizar:
Mm-hmm.

Nicole Bianchi:
—you know, what are you most curious about?

Then I’ll pause and just trust silence. And it forces them to look at it from a different perspective, right?, rather than coming at it from a fear-based or a defensiveness. It forces them to come at it with a little bit of a different mindset.

And so I think if we are really good at asking powerful questions and being curious to learn even just a bit more than what we think, it opens up possibilities for us that we might not have thought otherwise about.

[7:55] Teresa Huizar:
Can you be afraid of something while you’re curious about it? I don’t know. I mean, there is something that just sort of naturally lowers your defenses when you’re exploring something or examining it really closely. It’s not as terrifying, maybe, once you, you know, have a little more experience. It’s like exposure therapy. I’m terrified of snakes. If I were more curious about them, I’d probably be less terrified, you know? [Laughter]

Nicole Bianchi:
Oh, me too. In fact, I talk about, you know, there’s two types of fear. There’s the inherent fear, which is linked to survival. And I think of snakes [laughter] when I think of that type of fear. And there is something about what you’re saying, and I think about, even when we’re doing a leadership workshop, if I’m in the middle of a leadership workshop—and they’re very experiential, so there’s a lot of discomfort and, but they know that growth happens where the discomfort sits.

And so to lessen a little bit of that fear, I’ll say, “What if we just gave ourselves permission to experiment? We’re just going to experiment.” And all of a sudden you can see in the room, like it, it just lowers it—

Teresa Huizar:
Mmm.

Nicole Bianchi:
—the pressure that we put on ourselves, it helps us think about it differently. And that’s an intentional mindset move just like using questions, right? Questions to seek to understand versus “I have to have all the answers. I have to be perfect. I have to be the expert.” It’s like, well, what if we were a bit more curious, just a few questions longer, what could we learn about it?

[9:15] Teresa Huizar:
Well, and as you’re describing this, it’s also about testing change, you know? And that in and of itself is something that—I’m thinking about things that we’ve done at NCA. And often we’ll say, “Look, we’re going to try this for six months and then regroup, right? And decide whether we want to continue it or not.”

And what’s interesting is that people are just not as worried when they realize that there’s going to be a clearly defined point of time in which you’re going to revisit something. It’s not like, “Oh my God, we turned everything upside down all over again.” Instead it’s like, “OK, I can live with six months of whatever it is, as long as I know that we’re going to, you know, address it again.”

So I think that that’s a really interesting insight that you’ve had as well.

And I’m just wondering if you can give some examples of small brave moves. Because we’ve said they’re not, you know, rushing into a burning building. They’re not landing a plane on the river. You know, they can be smaller things. But what are we really talking about? What should people be thinking of if they’re thinking about, “In my role as a leader, these are the kinds of things that might make me a little uncomfortable but be an important and brave move for me.”

Nicole Bianchi:
I’ll share with you, I just finished a speaking engagement last week where I had somebody come up at the end, and she said, “You’re not going to believe this, but I heard you speak two years ago. And although the topic was still, you know, the headlines, bravery, the information was a little different.” And she said, “You challenged me to make one small brave move. That was your challenge at the end, to make one small brave move.” She goes, “And I have to tell you, I did it. I actually went in and started asking for what I needed and then advocating for myself in a role where I was just saying ‘yes’ to everything.” And she said, “That one move led to the next move, which led to the next one, which ended up changing the trajectory of my career.”

And she went on to say, she goes, “I’m making double in income than what I did at that first role where I was so unhappy saying ‘yes’ to everything. Now I’m in a role that I’m just so much more fulfilled,” and I’m listening to this and I’m getting choked up going—

Teresa Huizar:
Yes.

Nicole Bianchi:
—my gosh. I mean, and so that’s one example of how one small brave move then gave her the courage to lean into the next small brave move that she needed to make, that leaned into the next.

And the reason why I’m using “the ask” is important is, I have a second book coming out later this year around, as leaders, the five tough conversations we have to be really good at for exceptional leadership.

Teresa Huizar:
Mm-hmm.

Nicole Bianchi:
And this is where I think we get stuck. Because—so the five conversations are: The first one. Is this how we work? What do I need from you? What do you need from me? What are our agreements so we can both be successful?

The next one is the ask. So asking for help, asking for permission, asking for acknowledgement. We don’t ask for what we need. In fact, I think the statistics is right around 73% of people don’t ask for what they need until it’s almost too late. So think about that, right?

And so then the third one, and I won’t go into the fourth and fifth one, we’ll leave that till the book comes out. But the third one is the: What’s going on? Right? What’s going on in our relationship? I’m noticing a shift. Or maybe I’m noticing a shift in you? And I’m noticing something. And what I’m arguing in this, the top three, is if we get really good at those three, we shouldn’t have to have the fourth and fifth very often, which is the: being better; that you’re not at your best. Right? Which ends up being a big performance discussion, or the moving on—

Teresa Huizar:
Yeah.

Nicole Bianchi:
—which is just acknowledging that it isn’t working.

And so we can make small brave moves within those three first conversations. And, and it does take bravery to be able to ask for what you need or to say to somebody, “I don’t feel like we’re aligned on this, what’s going on?” Or, um, “I may need to challenge you or give you feedback. What’s the best way to do that?” I mean, that’s a brave question to ask a leader that you’re working for. And so how do we get better?

Those are small examples of conversation starters that can help us make those small brave moves.

[13:04] Teresa Huizar:
It’s interesting as you’re talking about that, because I’m thinking that the root there is the same, which is about fear. It’s really about overcoming the fear of what’s going to happen if I have this conversation. Can I live with the outcome of the conversation? If I open that up, will it be a can of worms? You know, all of that, that can keep a situation festering for a long time instead of uh, getting at results.

And I’m wondering also, what proportion of these small brave moves do you really think is about people management? I mean, I’m just really curious how often it turns out to be around having a conversation with my boss, having a conversation with my board, having a conversation with my deputy director, you know, all of that stuff. Or a funder.

Nicole Bianchi:
Right.

Teresa Huizar:
Or, you know, all of this … all of this that’s really about people management as much as anything.

Nicole Bianchi:
It is. Sometimes we build it up to be much more than it is. We tell ourselves stories and then it takes a, a tremendous amount of energy to go and have that conversation. So we just kind of kick it down the road and dismiss it.

And then what ends up happening is I get brought in as an executive coach to work with leaders who haven’t had the first three conversations and now they have to have the being better conversation. And they’re in that “Oh, no” moment.

Teresa Huizar:
Yeah.

Nicole Bianchi:
Like, this is the worst possible place. And they know they’ve messed up. They didn’t have all the other conversations and now they’re having to tell somebody, you know, some really tough news, which can be challenging. And I do think fear for sure is at the bottom of it.

I also think we tell ourselves excuses like, “I don’t have enough time to do this,” or “I’ll try to do it off the cuff,” which makes us 38% less confident—

Teresa Huizar:
Yeah.

Nicole Bianchi:
—when we figure out we don’t do the preparation. And so part of my, in the book it’s like: I’m going to give you a process that you’re going to work through. I’m going to give you conversation openers, closers for action. Here’s the format you can work on in the messy middle so that you can come out stronger, right, with this relationship knowing you’re doing it because you care. You’re having this relationship because you care about the person, the situation, or the results.

[15:04] Teresa Huizar:
I really appreciated about the book that in a lot of ways it was a little bit like a workbook. You know, you really could work your way through whatever your next brave move was going to be small, larger, in the middle.

Nicole Bianchi:
Yeah.

[15:16] Teresa Huizar:
But, you know, let’s talk for a moment kind of about that process, because I also think that sometimes people think like, “Well, there’s a brave move, and I’m just going to have it and then miraculously [laughter] it’s going to be better,” when, as you’re pointing out and through the book, there’s some preparation that’s involved in this, and it’s a process. Can you just talk a little bit about that?

Nicole Bianchi:
Yeah, so I focus on the nine mindsets, behaviors, and habits. And the reality is, there’s going to be some that you do really well, and there’s some that you are going to look at it, whether it’s curiosity or talk straight or whatever it is, and you’re going to go, “Gosh, I could probably do that one a little bit better.” And you’re going to recognize it.

Teresa Huizar:
Mmm. Mmm.

Nicole Bianchi:
And that’s where I think you focus, is just on one, maybe two. And then start leaning into what are some of the habits that it would take. And that’s part of the exercises, right? What habits, new habits do I need to form so I can be stronger in some of those moves that I want to make around that? And being really intentional about it.

And so some of them are going to come up for you that you’re going to go, “Yeah. Yep. I could be better at that.” Or maybe you’re going through a really negative period, and so I would push you towards the hope-driven mindset where—

Teresa Huizar:
Mmm-hmm.

Nicole Bianchi:
—being hope driven is about a positive expectation for a better future, and then the desire to go get it.

And so what are the moves you have to make to start each day being hope driven, finishing each day? Not that every day’s going to be perfect, but there are ways that you can sculpt your mindset, right? So that when inertia and things come at us throughout the day, and they do, sometimes they’re on our calendar, sometimes they’re not. But when they come at us, we can take a deep breath and lean into that mindset so that we can come at it from a different way.

[16:53] Teresa Huizar:
I think that’s especially true in human services. If you think about the work that we are doing and that child abuse professionals are doing every day. It’s interesting because I’ve been in the field a long time, you know, people will sometimes ask me, “How do you do this work?” You know? Or you’ll sit next to somebody on a plane, they’ll ask you what you do—major mistake to tell them [laughter]—but if you do—

Nicole Bianchi:
Yeah.

Teresa Huizar:
—you know: “How can you do that?”

I actually feel like this work is incredibly hopeful.

Nicole Bianchi:
Mmm-hmm.

Teresa Huizar:
And that’s what keeps me at it. And I think about people who come into the field and exit it. And I think we don’t do a good job of helping them necessarily understand what is truly hopeful about the work and how to cultivate that sense of hope, because I couldn’t do it 25 years later if I didn’t believe it was hopeful work.

Nicole Bianchi:
Yeah.

Teresa Huizar:
And that it made a difference and see that.

But I think you’re right to identify that that’s a key mindset, not just for small brave moves but making any kind of positive difference when you’re in a human service, you know, driven work.

Nicole Bianchi:
Mm-hmm. I think especially the work that you do, I can imagine how … it just doesn’t slow down. Right? It doesn’t slow down. And as you chip away at it every single day, it feels like more is coming in the door, which that’s what can make you feel a little bit hopeless about it. But knowing the difference that you’re making at every child and every family. And having that mindset and knowing the wins that you’re putting up on the board—because you are putting up wins. You know what I mean? Can help you think about it differently and not so, kind of like, “This is defeating,” and “Gosh, I just don’t know.” And carrying the weight of it and staying hope driven alleviates the tension along the way. And—

Teresa Huizar:
Mmm-hmm.

Nicole Bianchi:
—we’re either coming out of a problem, heading into another problem, or in the middle of a problem, and that’s the way it’s always going to be.

Teresa Huizar:
Yes.

Nicole Bianchi:
And it’s how we approach it will help us. And it helps us stay healthier from a stress and anxiety standpoint as well, having that mindset.

[18:47] Teresa Huizar:
I just also appreciated the realism of it. I mean, understanding that it’s true. Either [laughter] you are in the middle of solving a problem or you’re about to head into one. Or you just exited one and you’re going to have 30 seconds before the next one. There’s something actually relieving once you just acknowledge that’s the condition of life. And of being a leader. And so there’s nothing to panic about with that. That’s just the sort of state of affairs.

Um, talk a little bit about as you go through this process of taking a brave move. I mean, you are planning for it. This isn’t just rash. You know, you’re planning for that, you’re thinking about it, you’re doing things with intentionality. But one of the things I also appreciated you pointing out is that there is this messy middle.

Nicole Bianchi:
Yeah.

Teresa Huizar:
Talk a little bit about that. Because I feel like sometimes people think they’re going to have the brave mood and then wonderful joy! You know, like there’s nothing that that’s going to intervene in that.

Nicole Bianchi:
Right.

Teresa Huizar:
And so just talk a little bit about that, if you would.

Nicole Bianchi:
What’s interesting about what you’re saying is most small brave moves go unnoticed, unrecognized, and unrewarded. And first you have to acknowledge that.

Teresa Huizar:
Mmm.

Nicole Bianchi:
But it’s the series that will begin to slowly compound over time. And each small brave move is going to have varying levels of degrees. Right?

Teresa Huizar:
Of course.

Nicole Bianchi:
But doing one will give you the confidence to do another, which gives you the confidence to do another. And you role modeling it gives others permission. It inspires others to be a bit braver in the work that they do. Just in the moments that I’ve met you, I can tell that you have a hope driven mindset. And you modeling that for others, that small brave move, which probably isn’t as much of a small brave move now, it’s wired into your mindset, your behaviors and habits. But I guarantee it gives others permission to hold a little bit of a different mindset and go, “Oh wow, look.” Right? “Look how she approaches the work that we’re doing.” That’s something that’s really important.

[20:31] Teresa Huizar:
You know, it’s interesting to think about as leaders, we are modeling, you know, not just hope driven mindsets but all the rest of it too. Including our willingness to take small brave moves and our ability to support that in our own staff. And I wonder if it doesn’t increase staff retention over time when people feel like they have some permission to be brave in spaces.

Nicole Bianchi:
Yeah.

Teresa Huizar:
And they’re going to be supported if they are.

Nicole Bianchi:
Yeah, definitely. And I think—so us role modeling it, us talking about it and talking about the realism of what we’re dealing with. And so many times leaders feel that they have to be so overly positive or, um, “I have to be cheerleader-ish about this” kind of thing. And it’s like, “No, it’s OK to say this is tough for me too.”

Teresa Huizar:
Mm-hmm.

Nicole Bianchi:
“I’m wrestling with this right now as well, but here’s what I’m doing to move through it.” Right. So there’s that level of authenticity, which I start off small brave moves. It’s hard to make small brave moves if we’re not going to really lean into our most authentic self, we have to [not recorded; sound dropped out].

Teresa Huizar:
Mm-hmm.

Nicole Bianchi:
And what that is: What are our core values, our ethos, our purpose? And that is the foundation for us to be able to make some of those small brave moves as well.

[21:41] Teresa Huizar:
One of the things that we did at NCA a few years ago, of course, was working on our own core values. And when we did that, we had to think and talk about our own individually, you know?

Nicole Bianchi:
Yeah.

Teresa Huizar:
Among our senior staff and across the agency. That was really fascinating because everybody has reasons that they’re doing this work. They’re valid and wonderful, but they’re not the same. And I think when I was looking at that portion of your book, I was reminded of that, that you can’t assume that someone else’s core value for why and how they’re approaching this work authentically is the same as your own. It’s valid, but it’s not likely to be identical or the same.

Nicole Bianchi:
Mm-hmm. So go back, back to curiosity, and think about like how do you find out these others? It’s great that you did that broader exercise, but even in your one-on-one relationships, how do you ask questions to begin to learn more about individuals’ values and what’s most important to them as a part of a deeper conversation?

[22:34] Teresa Huizar:
Well, and also a conversation about what’s not only holding the organization back organizationally but also their own confidence in their own roles as employees. We found that if someone was getting triggered around something, it tied to that. You know? So if someone felt that there was an obstacle or they were, I don’t know, struggling with something, often it tied to feeling like a core value was being violated in some way.

I’m not talking about like life or death core values.

Nicole Bianchi:
Right.

Teresa Huizar:
I’m just talking about things that are important to you. You know, things like loyalty and, you know, feeling like you’re appreciated or, you know, whatever it is for every individual person. So I just appreciate the way that the book kind of walks you through all of these things that play an individual role in the decision you make about whether to take a particular small brave move, preparing yourself to do it, those kinds of things.

[23:27]
As you’ve looked at your own leadership practice, as you’ve looked at research around this over the years, what has surprised you most about it? I mean, you talk about this all the time, and yet you’re still curious. So what do you still get surprised by, or what has been particularly interesting or powerful to you in thinking about this over the years?

Nicole Bianchi:
What surprised me is—and in fact I’ll share with you, I’m working with a CEO right now who is the most amazing—he’s an amazing leader, and his number one strength is harmony. Having harmony in his life is very, very important, which means he doesn’t like conflict and avoids conflict. But he’s a very successful CEO, except something has kind of creeped in.

And so he said to me, he said, “Nicole, I am 63 years old, and I am still learning every day—

Teresa Huizar:
Mm-hmm.

Nicole Bianchi:
—how to be a better leader.” And so what for me is just so encouraging: He’s one example of so many other leaders that were on a journey.

Teresa Huizar:
Oh, yes.

Nicole Bianchi:
We’re all on a journey. We’re human, we’re not perfect. We’re going to take a run at some of these things and, and some of them may work. Some we’re going to keep working at. And for him it was like, “I’ve got to figure this out. I’ve got to figure out how to address conflict in a more productive way within my team so we can yield the successes we need to.” And here this is again from a 63-year-old. He’s an amazing leader. He is delivering strong business results, but there’s a little bit of dysfunction happening within his team.

And what that reminds me of is, again, we’re all on a journey and we’re all trying to figure it out and that none of us are going to be perfect at it. But as long as we’re lifelong learners and we want, individually, growth, the growth will come. If you invest in the work that needs to be done, the growth and the results will come.

Teresa Huizar:
Well, I think it’s just such an important reminder that, first of all, there’s no perfection in leadership and we’re all always working on something. That might not be our issue. Maybe it’s something else. But there is something and paying attention to it, you know, there’s real opportunity for personal growth. Really.

Nicole Bianchi:
Yeah.

Teresa Huizar:
You know? And that’s very rich.

[25:30]
I’m wondering too, you know, one of the things that we think about when we talk about things like small brave moves: Every move you ever make, brave or otherwise, is not going to be wildly successful, right? [Laughter[

Nicole Bianchi:
Yes!

Teresa Huizar:
So talk about when you prepare—well, you’ve done all your intentional work, you’re bringing your authentic self to it. You make a small brave move, and gosh, that just does not go—

Nicole Bianchi:
[Laughter] Yes.

Teresa Huizar:
—well as you’re hoping it will, at least in that moment. What do you do?

Nicole Bianchi:
[Dramatic breath] I think owning it, and I do own it. I will, I’ll give, I have to give myself permission to experiment.

Teresa Huizar:
Yeah.

Nicole Bianchi:
And then the thing I do is I hold a loose grip. I talk about like, “OK, Nicole, you have to hold a loose grip.”

Teresa Huizar:
Yeah.

Nicole Bianchi:
Because my need, I want it to be perfect. I want it to be perfect. [Laughter from Teresa] Completely perfect. So I’m like, “OK, Nicole, give yourself permission to experiment, hold a loose grip.” And then I always do an after-whatever.

Teresa Huizar:
Yeah.

Nicole Bianchi:
After that move I’ll do a: OK, what worked? What didn’t work?

Teresa Huizar:
Yeah.

Nicole Bianchi:
And what could I do better next time so that I can immediately apply it?

And I find that continuous kind of growth cycle helps me get better and better and hone in. I probably get it right 80% of the time on most things. But there’s that 20% where I’m like, “OK, well this is the learning opportunity. And how am I going to lean into it and not, um, be so upset with myself that it didn’t work out just as I had planned?

Teresa Huizar:
Or back away.

Nicole Bianchi:
Yeah. Yeah.

Teresa Huizar:
You know, I think sometimes when we try something and it doesn’t work out perfectly, our natural reaction is to go, “O-K, not doing that again.”

Nicole Bianchi:
Yeah.

Teresa Huizar:
It’s like, well actually maybe you’ll need to do it more, you know? [Laughter] [Cross-talk] I don’t know.

Nicole Bianchi:
Well, and so a great example is like in these tough conversations, and I tell—

Teresa Huizar:
Mmm.

Nicole Bianchi:
—leaders when I’m speaking on this, we can only control how we show up.

Teresa Huizar:
That’s right.

Nicole Bianchi:
Did we prepare? Are we sharing an impactful message? Opening it up for dialogue? Are we doing all the right moves?

We can’t control the other side.

Teresa Huizar:
That’s right.

Nicole Bianchi:
What we can control is how we show up, and that’s what we’re going to focus on today.

[27:16] Teresa Huizar:
It’s such a good point, that there are always going to be uncontrollable variables in anything. Whether it’s a conversation with a person or maybe there’s some, I don’t know, something you’re launching or whatever. But it’s really about how … how we are setting our own intentions and acting on them that I think makes a huge difference. And preparation is just key. And I appreciated all that you did to kind of walk people through how you would go about preparing for those things.

I’m also wondering, you’ve completed your small brave move, whatever that is. And you talked a little bit about kind of debriefing with yourself, almost. Like what went well, what didn’t—what do you recommend about that so that people really do learn from something and it’s not just like, “Wow! Yay! That was a win!” And then …

Nicole Bianchi:
Yeah.

Teresa Huizar:
… you know, it’s Groundhog’s Day the next time you have a [laughter]

Nicole Bianchi:
Right.

Teresa Huizar:
—a small brave move that you need to make.

Nicole Bianchi:
Yeah, I debrief the ones that went well as well as the ones that don’t.

Teresa Huizar:
Yeah.

Nicole Bianchi:
Because I want to replicate when it did go well. So I’ll share an example. I had to deliver some very tough feedback to an executive. I was hired to come in and do some stakeholder feedback, and the feedback wasn’t good. In fact, on a scale of zero to five, five being the best leader you’ve ever worked with … people were rating her a zero.

[Cross-talk]
Teresa Huizar:
That’s not good. [Laughter] Yeah.

Nicole Bianchi:
A zero. On a scale of one to five. Right?

And so I went through this process where—how am I going to open this in such a way that she can listen and hear

Teresa Huizar:
Mmm-hmm.

Nicole Bianchi:
And do something with it.

Teresa Huizar:
Mm-hmm.

Nicole Bianchi:
Like, how do I help her move to action? I started it along the lines of, “I just need to share with you that it isn’t good.” Right? “It’s going to be very tough to hear, but you have a choice.” And then I went on to share a bit more about the choice, And at the end she said to me, “Oh my gosh, Nicole, you’re so good at how you opened it and how you—

Teresa Huizar:
Mm-hmm.

Nicole Bianchi:
But she was: “I don’t know how to speak that way when I’m talking to others.”

And I literally pulled out a thing that she couldn’t see, but it was my notes.

Teresa Huizar:
Yeah.

Nicole Bianchi:
My bullet point of notes that if fear crept in or I got nervous. And I said, “My notes are right here.” I said, “I prepared. I really wanted to be thoughtful about how I delivered this feedback. I knew it was going to be tough. But I wanted you to be able to take action.” And so that ended up being that conversation, one of my most powerful—

Teresa Huizar:
That’s interesting.

Nicole Bianchi:
—delivering feedback coaching conversations. And at the end of that I told myself, “OK, the extra moves you went into in the preparation and the notes and the …”—you know, almost scripting my moves, knowing that uncertainty was going to come in.

Teresa Huizar:
Of course.

Nicole Bianchi:
And I was going to have to be able to improv a bit. But knowing that gave me the confidence to deliver a very tough message and that I want, I knew at the end of that I was like, “I’ve got to replicate that again.”

[29:52] Teresa Huizar:
Could you talk a little bit about that preparation? Because I do think some people just think that, that people come out of the womb able to either have harder conversations or not.

Nicole Bianchi:
Right.

Teresa Huizar:
And they’re just sort of like, you know, “It’s a mystery how it happens.”

Nicole Bianchi:
Yep.

Teresa Huizar:
And I feel like a lot of, you know, your work is about demystifying some things for folks to do.

Nicole Bianchi:
Mm-hmm.

Teresa Huizar:
So talk a little bit about the role of preparation and all of this business of taking small brave moves.

Nicole Bianchi:
Well, I’ll tell you, I learned early on being put into situation after situation after situation that building a process around it was going to be really important.

Teresa Huizar:
Mmmm.

Nicole Bianchi:
And taking the best of all the moves that I was learning as quickly as possible.

And so I’ll go through a series of questions around, you know, what outcome am I looking for? What emotion am I feeling? What do I want for them, the situation, right, the results? So I go through these thought-provoking questions, right? This list, so that I can begin to prepare. And then I move into scripting, which is: How am I going to open it in such a way that I let them know why I am there, that I care, and that, you know, whether it’s uncomfortable or whatever it’s going to be? And then I hit my bullet points on the fact-based information that I have to share. And then I always script out action. So moves for action so that they have the accountability, they have the ownership, they feel empowered and the autonomy to go make some change.

Alongside, you know, I’m supportive, right? I’m coach. I’m your executive coach.

Teresa Huizar:
Sure.

Nicole Bianchi:
I’m running alongside you and I’m going to be there. And so being able to script that. And then I’ll do—this is going to sound silly to some people that are listening, but I do a table read. I verbalize it out loud.

Teresa Huizar:
Oh, that’s interesting.

Nicole Bianchi:
Right? Because when you say it out loud, it sounds different than in your head.

Teresa Huizar:
Yes.

Nicole Bianchi:
And when something [doesn’t] land right. Or even, my tone, right? I know when I end a sentence with a high pitch?

Teresa Huizar:
Mm,

Nicole Bianchi:
I sound uncertain.

Teresa Huizar:
Right.

Nicole Bianchi:
And can’t sound uncertain in that conversation. So I’ll record it—

Teresa Huizar:
That’s so good.

Nicole Bianchi:
—on my phone, listen to it. So I’ll do that, the table read, and then I’ll do that certainly the morning of as well.

And then I put everything away and I set my intentions for the conversation. Which are: I can only control, you know, how I show up.

Teresa Huizar:
Mm-hmm.

Nicole Bianchi:
I can’t control—but then I’m there to do the best work I possibly can and help them see the change that needs to happen.

So after I set the intentions, I just let it be, and then I wait till I have the conversation.

[32:17] Teresa Huizar:
I really appreciate the piece about the table read. I think that issue about your own tone of voice catching how something’s going to come across before you say it to the person, that is so key. That is just such good insight about doing that preparation and that—I mean, it has to pay off in how those conversations go versus even if you do all the rest of it but you are really not honing in on your body language and your tone of voice and the pacing of that. I can see how that can make an enormous difference in the way it’s received when you’re coaching somebody.

Or even not coaching them, just having a challenging conversation with somebody, you know?

Nicole Bianchi:
Right, right. One of the top things I hear from leaders around a fear is that I’m going, that they, when they get nervous, they repeat themselves over and over. Like that—I’ll say the three things over and over. So being able to table read, it helps you be clear and concise, right?

Teresa Huizar:
Hmm.

Nicole Bianchi:
Be clear and concise in the message you’re trying to articulate and even practicing a question you want to ask.

Now, the other thing I would add is, I tell every leader when they’re getting ready to go have their own tough conversation, and they’re in the midst of it, and they’ve done all the practice, all the work. If they’re in the middle of it and something comes out wrong—it wasn’t how they intended. Just to call a timeout real quick and say, “Hold on. I’d like to rephrase that,” or, “I’d like to say that a different way” and just own it in that minute. You don’t have to be perfect. Take it and rephrase it or however you want to make that little adjustment. They’ll be okay with it. They’re not going to mind that. In fact, they’ll probably appreciate that you’re not perfect at this either.

[33:49] Teresa Huizar:
Well, and probably appreciate that you didn’t let something sit—

Nicole Bianchi:
Yeah.

Teresa Huizar:
—that was problematic, that could—

Nicole Bianchi:
Yes!

Teresa Huizar:
—create like relationship problems, —

Nicole Bianchi:
Right!

Teresa Huizar:
depending on what you said and how you said it. So—

Nicole Bianchi:
Yeah.

Teresa Huizar:
Yeah, yeah. I do think though, that your point too about if people can see that you’re vulnerable and make mistakes yourself, that can be useful as well in folks feeling comfortable having a hard conversation.

[34:12]
You know, we’ve been talking about these hard conversations for a while, and what occurs to me is that probably a lot of brave moves—small brave moves—are really about that.

Nicole Bianchi:
Yeah.

Teresa Huizar:
You know?

Nicole Bianchi:
Yes.

Teresa Huizar:
Do you find that? That a lot of it, it’s not about like programs or launching something—

Nicole Bianchi:
Right.

Teresa Huizar:
—or, I don’t know, financial buyouts and other things.

Nicole Bianchi:
Right.

Teresa Huizar:
It’s really about people. [Laughter]

Nicole Bianchi:
Right. You’re exactly right. It’s probably no accident that it’s my second book, right, that’s going a little deeper on about making small brave moves but in a tough conversation format. Right?

Teresa Huizar:
Yeah.

Nicole Bianchi:
So my goal with that is I know if I can increase leaders’ frequency in having all of the conversations, it’s going to increase their confidence and then it’ll increase their results. And it’ll alleviate some of the tension around, you know, the meetings after the meetings.

Teresa Huizar:
Yeah.

Nicole Bianchi:
Or people not feeling that they can speak up or the dysfunction that kind of creeps in when we don’t say what needs to be said.

[35:07] Teresa Huizar:
One of the things I’m thinking about in our world with Children’s Advocacy Centers is that we are with people from lots of different disciplines. So our staff are working with law enforcement, child protective services, prosecutors, you know, therapists, the whole gamut, medical professionals, victim advocates. And you can imagine that each of those entities, those partner organizations, have their own cultures, their own ways of communicating, all that. So there’s a lot of opportunity for conversation to go awry— [Laughter]

Nicole Bianchi:
Yeah.

Teresa Huizar:
—if you’re not thoughtful and intentional.

Nicole Bianchi:
Right.

Teresa Huizar:
Like every conversation is a crucial conversation or a small brave move sometimes. So, especially when you’re talking about things that people really care very deeply about. Here you have a child. People may be disagreeing on what needs to happen next in a case, but everybody cares about that child and wants what’s best for them.

And so I’m thinking about, you know, how what so much of you’re talking about is not just for the person who holds the title CEO. It’s the person who’s facilitating that conversation, the multidisciplinary team facilitator. It’s going to be critical that they have these skills and able to talk about these things and in this way.

Nicole Bianchi:
Absolutely. And when I use the word “leader,” everybody is leading something, whether it’s they’re leading, right, their portion of work, they’re leading something for an organization. It’s not necessarily having direct reports or teams, but every person has the ability to be a leader and to influence some sort of an outcome.

And when they do that, right, and they lean into some of the moves that they need to make, and when I think about that multidisciplinary—you couldn’t be more right. In the first conversation, the how we work becomes so incredibly important. So when we’re working together and we’re in an intense situation, or there might be high emotions, or … us being really clear on what we need from each other can help alleviate some of those points, those things that happen during those moments. And taking time and investing a little bit of time into that relationship will help the rest of it. So when we are in those moments, we’re not having to go back and fix as many things, but that we have a set of agreements that builds a strong foundation for our relationship. And we continue to invest in that.

[37:13] Teresa Huizar:
You know, as you’re talking about that, I’m also thinking it sets the team itself up to have confidence in their own ability to take small brave moves collectively, you know. And I’m wondering if you see more of that where more of your conversations are around not just individuals and the small brave moves and the tough conversations they need to have but also the teamwork as a part of that, and how you were sort of talking and training teams around these things, too.

Nicole Bianchi:
Yeah, I work with a lot of teams. And we always start off with a team alignment session, which is really about setting what are those rhythms, rules, and routines for us to operate as a high performing team. So what are the three to five rules that we create so we know what we expect of each other and we’re not guessing it or we set up false expectations.

And one that always comes out is the “talk straight.”

Teresa Huizar:
Mmm.

Nicole Bianchi:
Like, we have to be able to talk straight with each other.

Teresa Huizar:
Mmm.

Nicole Bianchi:
But setting it as a rule gives everybody permission to do it.

Teresa Huizar:
Yes.

Nicole Bianchi:
If we don’t have permission, we don’t always want to do it.

And then what we do is we come in and we set the routine around it.

Teresa Huizar:
Hmm.

Nicole Bianchi:
OK. So what routine would have to happen for us to live that to its very fullest? What does that look like in action every day for us as a team? Well, and then we begin the brainstorm and putting some structure around it. And so that, what happens when we do that with teams, that’s where we start, is those: What are those agreements that are going to enable us to be our most high performing self? And it accelerates the cohesion, the trust, the momentum of the work that needs to be done.

Because the issue is, is we get so focused on what we’re trying to do, right? The goals, the objectives, the tasks, that we don’t invest the same amount of time as on the how.

The how we want to work. Behaviorally, how should we show up? Right? If you notice that I’m emotionally triggered by something, what should we be doing in those moments?

Teresa Huizar:
Yes.

Nicole Bianchi:
How can we help each other? How can we be there for each other?

[39:02] Teresa Huizar:
You know, you mentioned it early in our conversation but also in the book, you believe that the ability to do small brave moves is a competitive advantage.

Nicole Bianchi:
Mm-hmm.

Teresa Huizar:
That it really is a sort of distinguishing factor between this organization and that one, this leader and that one. Can you talk just a little bit about that?

Nicole Bianchi:
Yeah, absolutely. So when I think about that, you know, I talked earlier about how one small brave move leads to another, right? And the compounding effect of that. So can you imagine if you had more than just one individual, more than just one team all doing that and operating, you know, in alignment on how they wanted to deliver the results? Right? It ends up creating that high performing organization. And they’re able to have real-time conversations and move through conflict so much quicker. And if they even start to see a little bit of dysfunction pop in, they come in and they handle it. And they don’t wait for the leader to do it.

There’s pure accountability, right? They’re holding each other accountable because they want to see the success happen. And so that’s what I see when you do a more concentrated effort like that, and it’s beyond that one person. I mean exponentially, they perform so much higher.

[40:10] Teresa Huizar:
I can imagine every MDT facilitator in the country going “YES!” [laughter] just as you were talking about that because that’s so true.

Nicole Bianchi:
Yes.

Teresa Huizar:
And also, you know, so many of them, I think are going to find the book and also your conversation at Leadership [Conference this June] so very helpful in helping them kind of know how to make that next step.

[40:28]
You talked a little bit about the second book that’s coming out.

Nicole Bianchi:
Yes.

Teresa Huizar:
So tell us a little bit more about that. Just when is it being released? And anything else you’d like to say about that. Because one of my questions for you is sort of what’s next. Well, it sounds like what’s next is right around the corner.

Nicole Bianchi:
Yeah, it is. So it’ll be released in August.

Teresa Huizar:
Excellent.

Nicole Bianchi:
I’m doing keynotes on that. I’ve built workshops—

Teresa Huizar:
Wonderful.

Nicole Bianchi:
—where it’s very experiential. So not only do you get to work through each one of those five conversations that you’ll see in the book, and it’ll be guided just like Small Brave Moves. And there’ll be some powerful exercises for you around conversation openers. That ends up being the number one thing leaders have asked for is like, “How do I open this conversation?”

Teresa Huizar:
Oh, interesting.

Nicole Bianchi:
Well, here’s 10 easy ways that you could open up this power—and then it, again, it lessens a little bit of the fear. So, and then what’s the process? How do I move through that, and how do I manage some of the emotions? How do I get emotionally and physically ready for the conversation?

And my guess is your teams deal with this as well, right? Then what happens after that? Right?

Teresa Huizar:
Yes.

Nicole Bianchi:
How do I emotionally and physically come back and recover from what that looks like and what that is? And so that’s the book.

And the workshop, again, is very experiential. But it’s where we get to roll up our sleeves and do the work in practicing all of those. And then it finishes with a live simulation where we bring in some outside experts to help us be a bit braver and lean into our discomfort around some tough conversations.

[41:51] Teresa Huizar:
I love this.

Yeah.

Teresa Huizar:
So you get to role play it a little bit. Yeah.

Nicole Bianchi:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But not just a traditional role play.

Teresa Huizar:
Mmm.

Nicole Bianchi:
One that the scenarios are developed for your organization, and we bring in expert actors to come in and really help challenge you to that next level of—

[42:07] Teresa Huizar:
I was going to say, I bet they do. [Laughter] Because if they’re really acting in their role—

Nicole Bianchi:
Yes.

Teresa Huizar:
—they’re probably just on it with throwing some kind of little wrinkle into that tough conversation.

Nicole Bianchi:
Well, because that’s how it is, right?

Teresa Huizar:
That is how it is.

Nicole Bianchi:
There’s a lot of unpredictability.

Teresa Huizar:
Yeah.

Nicole Bianchi:
But again, if I go back to like, “Hey, we’re going to increase that frequency of you having ’em, and that’s going to give you that confidence.” And so we do that in a rapid simulation where the leaders come out going, “Wow.” And, and you can see it like, they’re really like, “That was incredible and that was powerful.” And you can just see a little different level of confidence that they now can go back and do more with.

[42:46] Teresa Huizar:
You know what I appreciate about this conversation as a whole is, it’s clear that you view all of these things as skills to be learned. Not magic, not things you’re born with—

Nicole Bianchi:
Right.

Teresa Huizar:
—not “inborn leadership,” talent, you know, that can’t be—you know, which I think there’s just a little bit of … I don’t know, mystifying of the whole leadership thing that’s unnecessary. And it’s really refreshing to hear you talk about it in this way. Because it’s so clear that anyone in any position anywhere can upskill, and we all have areas where we need to.

And I think that that’s actually, speaking of hopeful things, that’s really hopeful, right? That it’s not like either you somehow mysteriously had it or you didn’t. Nope! You can learn these things just like—

Nicole Bianchi:
Absolutely.

Teresa Huizar:
—you know, you learn them. So that’s good.

[43:32]
So what have I not asked you that I should have? What do you want to make sure that even before all of these folks get to your Leadership Conference talk that they are aware of or know, or any of those things? We’ve tried to be careful not to, you know, preview too much. We want folks to be excited about that, and we know they will be. I feel like we’ve just kind of teased them a little bit.

Nicole Bianchi:
Absolutely.

Teresa Huizar:
But if there’s anything else that you want to make sure we cover, I want to give you the opportunity.

Nicole Bianchi:
Well, I know that as the closing keynote, they’re going to be coming off of a powerful conference. Maybe a little tired. But what I would tell you is, be ready to have some fun. [Laughter] Because we are going to have some fun. We’re going to build some bravery right there in the room.

Teresa Huizar:
Excellent.

Nicole Bianchi:
And finish on a high note with an inspirational piece. So I can’t wait to meet everybody face-to-face and, and be in the room and help build some bravery together.

[Outro music begins]

[44:20] Teresa Huizar:
Nicole, it’s been a delight. I think it’s going to be a wonderful Leadership Conference experience.

Folks, if you haven’t gotten the book, get it even before Leadership Conference.

And really looking forward to having you there. So see you soon.

Nicole Bianchi:
Thank you so much.

[Outro]

[44:36] Teresa Huizar:
Thanks for listening to One in Ten. If you like this episode, please share it with a friend. And to hear more from Nicole, please join us at our June Leadership Conference where Nicole is one of our plenary speakers. To learn more about the conference, please visit our NCA website at nationalchildrensalliance.org.

[Outro music fades out]