Shola Richards on the Heart of a Healthy Workplace

Teresa Huizar:
Hi, I’m Teresa Huizar, your host of One in Ten. In today’s episode, “The Heart of a Healthy Workplace,” I talk with speaker, author, and workplace culture consultant Shola Richards about developing a healthy workplace environment. Now, if you’ve worked any time at all, then you’ve worked in some place that was unhealthy—let’s just be honest. Maybe it was full of gossip and backstabbing. Or perhaps there was that one disgruntled employee who just made the whole place miserable. Or, even more worrisome, perhaps you or one of your colleagues was bullied. These toxic workplaces take an emotional toll. They’re exhausting. Draining. Demoralizing.

What can we do as leaders to create a healthy workplace culture right from the very start? How do we turn around one that’s developed some sort of trouble spot? And, most importantly, how do we contribute to a healthier and happier workplace through our own attitude and resiliency? As we’re developing a new normal post-pandemic, I know you’ll be as interested as I am in Shola’s insights, delivered as always with empathy and humor. Take a listen.

Teresa Huizar:
Hi, Shola.

Shola Richards:
Hey, Teresa.

Teresa Huizar:
Welcome to One in Ten.

Shola Richards:
Thanks for having me.

Teresa Huizar:
Well, it feels like it’s only been mere days since I saw you last on Zoom as a part of our Leadership Conference, which I really appreciated. But some of our listeners weren’t lucky enough to be at the Leadership Conference. More’s the pity. So I’m going to start this where I start every interview, and that’s just to ask you, how did you come to this work that you’re doing now?

Shola Richards:
Oh, gosh. Well, first of all, thank you, Teresa, for inviting me onto this podcast. And thank you for inviting me to speak at the Leadership Conference, which was a week before recording this, which is super-duper cool.

What brought me to this work actually is kind of, sadly, a dark story, but it’s one of hope afterwards. I was working in a really toxic work environment about 15, 16 years ago. And while I was working there and I was being harassed and abused—awful, awful situations. I shared a lot of the stories in the Leadership Conference, but I just got to a point where I was reaching out for help and trying to have people acknowledge this awful behavior that was happening. And no one really did anything. And I ended up falling into a very deep depression. And, to make a long story short, when I was in this really dark place, I decided that I was going to take my own life. And it was one of the hardest times, if not the hardest time in my life to date.

And I attempted suicide by trying to drive my car off of the freeway overpass in an attempt to make it look like an accident. And for reasons that I’m grateful for, the guardrail held; I came back in incoming traffic. And what happened afterwards was like this thought of like, gosh, why isn’t someone doing something about toxic, unhealthy workplaces and just mean people we’re working with. And at that point, I mean, I was like, well, you know what? I guess—one of my buddies was like, “Well, hey, you’re somebody. Why don’t you do something about it?” And I’m like, who am I? So I went into the research and I just started doing some work. And I decided, even if I don’t know what I’m doing, I’ll kind of build the plane on the way down, so to speak.

And this has been where I’ve been for the past 15, 16 years, trying to help create healthy work environments. So no one has to deal with what I dealt with many years ago.

Teresa Huizar:
You know, when your friend asked you that question or sort of posed this challenge to you, you know, you could have had a lot of different reactions to that.

You know, you could have had a reaction of let somebody else do it, or you could have decided that, you know, it’s just not, not your calling, not your life’s work. What made you feel that this was your calling?

Shola Richards:
Well, I’m what’s called an HSP, which stands for highly sensitive person. So I feel things really, really deeply. And I don’t know if that’s like a superpower or disability depending on the day to be honest, but because when I’m really feeling things, I feel not just the lows, but the highs, what it’s like to be in a really wonderful work environment where you feel a sense of psychological safety, where you feel a sense of trust, where people are bringing the right attitude to work, where they’re communicating effectively.

Those feelings were things that I wanted to experience again, just like I didn’t want to experience the opposite of those feelings. And so I knew this was my work based on the feeling of—this is gonna sound a little hokey so forgive me—but like this feeling of like this soul nourishment that came from helping others to get there and helping organizations to create these environments throughout their organization.

So that was something that I knew the first time I talked to a team, which was like a small team of like four or five people, and helped them to talk about how to really start communicating more openly and creating a culture of trust. That feeling—I was on a high for like weeks. It was the smallest job, super small, but to these folks—small only in scope—not in terms of meaning, that was something that really stuck with me.

And ever since then, I’m like, I will be doing this ’til the day that I die.

Teresa Huizar:
You know, I think that, of course there have to be some small percentage of toxic workplaces that are that way, because frankly leadership wants it that way. You know, they’re just sort of top-down nasty. But I think a lot of workplaces that are not great places to work somehow make some missteps, misjudgments, maybe they overlook certain things.

I’m just wondering, in all these years, both of study and experience working with teams, what have you found are sort of common missteps that an organization can make that then take them down on this path where they wake up one day and they’ve got a toxic work environment?

Shola Richards:
Yeah. Great question, Teresa.

So it’s funny that we had an opportunity to talk at the Leadership Conference because leadership really does play a key role in this when I’m—and I’m going to do my best to kind of oversimplify because it can get a little just in the weeds really, but—Really, if you think about it, when you think of leaders, there’s two types of leaders, right?

There’s the one leader who is toxic, behaves in a toxic manner and just doesn’t seem to care. Then there’s the other leader who enables toxic behaviors to happen. Maybe he or she is unaware of how bad things are in the organization, but the reality is, they’re allowing gossip. They’re allowing incivility. They’re allowing backstabbing. They’re allowing people to undermine others in their work. And by “allow” I’m just talking about being aware that this is happening and choosing not to do anything, or hearing about it and then not investigating it.

Teresa Huizar:
Just ignoring it.

Shola Richards:
Ignoring it. I mean, truthfully, if I was a toxic employee, I would know—and many toxic people do this—they’re amazing at managing up. Because high, senior leaders like yourself and others are so busy, right? So you want to hope that everything beneath you in terms of a hierarchy standpoint is going well. So someone’s like, “Oh no, everything’s fine.” Like, good. That’s one less thing you have to worry about. I’ve got to handle this stuff and strategic planning for the next year and all this work that we have to do on Capitol Hill. So all these things are where your focus is. And then the toxic person is like, all right, cool, Teresa, she’s good now. Let me go do what I need to do with these people.

It’s unfortunate. And sadly, this happens in so many different organizations across the world that one of the biggest missteps is just not listening to your people when they tell you that something is up.

Teresa Huizar:
Mm. Mm. How do you think the past say 15 months of the pandemic has altered this dynamic? I mean, are you seeing more cyberbullying or other kinds of behavior that, you know, people have just moved on for being nasty, you know, right there at your cubicle to just doing it online?

Or has it given some respite to some people because it has changed—I mean in certain ways, by changing the workplace environment, it’s changed the workplace culture. So, you know, this is such a confusing time, I think for a lot of people. What has been your observation about it?

Shola Richards:
I love this question because it’s so insightful, Teresa, that you bring this up. And there’s a couple of things. Well, from my experience, what I’ve seen is that this new normal, the pandemic, when in mid-March of 2020, our whole worlds were turned upside down and people were forced to work from home for safety reasons. What I found, pretty interestingly, is that it was like this weird sink or swim moment for leaders.

And what I mean by this is that you had to, in order to succeed, you had to be emotionally intelligent. You had to be a good listener. You had to have empathy because you’re managing this very bizarre reality where people like me and many others across the world who have young children who are screaming in the background during your team meetings—that was never happening in the workplace because their kids were at school. They don’t have a place to be, and you’re managing babies and kids and dogs barking and—

Teresa Huizar:
So true.

Shola Richards:
—and, not to mention, the overall anxiety of, because people are like, oh my, they hear stories about people losing their jobs because of the pandemic. And you see people getting the actual virus, and you’re caring for someone who’s immunocompromised. Or maybe you have a cancer survivor who is a spouse or a loved one. There’s so much anxiety.

So the leaders, in order to get the most out of their team, they have to be able to manage this side of the employee. They have to be able to listen. You could argue that, beforehand you could kind of do a little cursory: “Hey, so Teresa, you know, how’s your weekend?” Now you have to get a little bit more in-depth in order to make sure, like, are you well? Are you okay? What can I do to serve you? And I’ve seen the leaders who just can’t do that well fail, and the ones who’ve always done that well got even better. And they have been in a position to kind of elevate their level of influence in the organization. So to me, in a weird way, that’s the silver lining of all.

Teresa Huizar:
I think it is an interesting thing, because of course the pandemic was a tremendous tragedy, especially for those 600,000 people who lost their lives and their loved ones and all of that. At the same time, we’d be foolish if we didn’t try to learn as much as we possibly can from the experience. And I think that’s really what you’re speaking to is: what are the leadership skills that really matter, particularly in a moment of crisis, but carry you through every day, too? You know, it’s not just about a crisis.

I want to ask you about this other moment that we’re in right now, which is: Lots of people have been either having a portion of their employees or all of their employees working from home for quite some time.

Many of them are bringing folks back to the office—part-time, full-time—I mean, whatever it is. And, of course, we’re all having dialogue about, you know, managing those decisions, how you make them, all of those kinds of things. But we sort of assume that the culture that existed in the physical space before the pandemic, somehow it’s going to magically arise when people return to the office.

And I just wonder if you think that, magically it will, or if there’s something we need to be paying attention to, to make sure that the—you know, certainly there’s a culture that’s been maintained through the pandemic as well, but that even the physical environment affects that. And so, what should we be paying attention to?

Shola Richards:
Oh. my gosh. Not to get off track, but gosh, I love your questions, Teresa. [Laughter.] They’re so good. I mean—

Teresa Huizar:
I’ve had a little practice. [Laughter.]

Shola Richards:
Clearly. I mean, hello. But I mean, this is just, you are fabulous as a podcast host and questioner. I really, really enjoy and respect that question. Because I think a lot of times what happens is people have this idea. It’s like: “Hey. We’re back together now. So let’s just pick up where we left off.”

Well, this has been a really traumatic period of time for people. So think about it. When you’re, we’re all working in an office and then we had that ripped away from us, like in the span of a day or two, and you’re forced at home. There’s so much uncertainty, there’s so much fear. And then you get to a point where as humans, we adapt, we kind of get to a place of, maybe not complete comfort, but maybe enough to be able to make it through. And then you get to a point where this is the new normal. And then it’s like: Hey, we’re going back again. And it’s like, whoa. Then you think about all the things in the office that you didn’t enjoy that you didn’t have to deal with the past 15 months. And this is why they have this, this term that’s been coming up now, called the turnover tsunami, which is happening when people are asking folks to come back. So, to answer your question, I don’t think that it is smart for anyone to think that the culture will go back to the way it was. Even something as simple as the physical environment is a change, right?

So people maybe sitting next to each other or close to each other as they used to before, you could argue—one of my dear friends is being asked to go back to work, and she has seasonal allergies. And back in the day—“back in the day” meaning like early 2020—

Teresa Huizar:
Yes. Exactly [Laughter.] The before times.

Shola Richards:
Yes, exactly. BC. Before COVID. When you would sneeze in the office, people would just be like, Oh, bless you,” and move on. Now it’s like—“She has COVID.”

Teresa Huizar:
Exactly. They’re going to run out of the building. [Laughter.]

Shola Richards:
Run out of the building. Run out of the building! [Laughter.]

So she has high levels of anxiety around how are people, “How are people going to feel around me?” Also, too, small things like elevators and conference rooms and meetings in person and all these things that, because there’s so much uncertainty about what this is going to look like, it can be hard. So for leaders, my recommendation is to please listen in. Be—just like I said before, about being more in tune with the emotional side, the wellness side of your employees—but constantly be asking questions around: “How are you feeling about this?” “What are your thoughts about this?” “Is there anything that we could do to make this more comfortable?” And if you’re struggling too, admit that, so it makes it so you can be more relatable to someone who’s struggling. It’s a very important thing to make that happen.

Teresa Huizar:
You know, and I think the other part of it is, I remember the first time I stood with my mask off, you know, because I was vaccinated and could talk to someone. It felt so odd. I mean, there’s just a part of this that the first day back in the office, I don’t care if you’re going one day a week or five days a week, it’s going to feel weird for a while. You know?

Shola Richards:
I agree. I feel like that was, it’s so funny that you say that, because I think I’m, I’m fully vaccinated as well. And I was a faithful mask wearer, and I wore it like everywhere. My wife works in healthcare and she wears a mask for like 10 hours a day. So after I got vaccinated and two weeks afterward, my final shot, I was like, I can walk my dog without this thing on? Like, it was a strange thing and it was like this beginning, but walking my dog doesn’t compare to going back to the office. Right?

Teresa Huizar:
That’s so true.

Shola Richards:
There’s no anxiety around walking my dog, but there’s anxiety around: Oh my gosh. Like, is this person next to me vaccinated? Who knows? Right. So it’s just a very, very high anxiety time for millions of Americans returning back to work.

Teresa Huizar:
I remember about the first six months of the pandemic I was hearing from the employees constantly about Zoom fatigue.

Shola Richards:
Yeah.

Teresa Huizar:
And that really almost was like a muscle that started getting exercise until it became something people could experience without really feeling as exhausted at the end of the day. And I feel like this is—the reverse of this is going to happen. It’s going to take us six months for people to feel entirely comfortable with whatever the work arrangements are. Being back in the office at whatever level people are, because it’s still, you know, it’s just an adjustment and these things are just so challenging.

I’m also wondering, you know, I don’t care whether you’re in person or not in person. It seems like there’s sort of two sets of responsibilities, right? There’s the organizational responsibility. It’s leadership’s responsibility to set a positive workplace culture and to address issues that come up and to do that promptly before it starts creating problems, right? And to set the conditions for success.

Then there’s the responsibility of employees themselves, right? These toxic employees know what they’re doing. And then there are people who are not toxic but frankly are still sometimes painful to interact with at times, because even if they’re not toxic, they can just maybe be very negative or other kinds of things.

And I’m just wondering about what you say to employees—or what should organizations say to employees—as they’re taking care of their own side of the house and making sure that that’s in good shape. About the employee sort of expectations and responsibilities for contributing to a positive workplace culture.

Shola Richards:
Yeah. Again, that’s such a great question and I need to stop saying that’s a great, great question because every question is fantastic. One of the things that organizations don’t do very often, is to make sure that teams, intact teams have—this is the work that I do, consultatively, when I work with organizations and can do a deep dive with them, is to help them create team norms. And by team norms their expectations of: How we should show up for each other? How we should treat each other? How should we communicate with each other? What’s the way that this team will handle conflict when it comes up? How will this team make sure to recognize each other when we’re doing great work? How will we engage in an environment where trust is created and psychological safety is created?

But the specificity is so important because usually it’s like, “Hey, we need to communicate well on this team.” And people are like, “What does that mean? I’m not quite sure what exactly he or she is getting at.”

So I love the idea of having team norms because in—very important, team norms that are created by the team, even by those people who could be potentially labeled as toxic or difficult or whatever—understanding that these norms that come up, we as a team will be holding each other accountable. Because I think the weakest teams, the boss is the one who holds the team accountable, but the strongest teams are the ones where each other are responsible for holding the team accountable. And when you create those norms, it’s easier to hold yourself and others accountable to them because you created them. That’s the whole process, right?

So I love the idea of that because this can help those people who don’t want to get on board realize, hey, this is how we’re doing things now in this team. So if you really want to get on board, now’s the time, but if you don’t want to, it’s going to be kind of tough sledding because this is how we’re doing it from now on.

Teresa Huizar:
What do you think about sort of the role of hiring and onboarding in this as well?

Because it seems to me that, you know, there’s a, self-selection part of this as well. I mean, any employer can wind up with somebody who somehow, you know, seems superficially, wonderfully charming in an interview and then turns out to be difficult. Right? We’ve all had that experience. We’re thinking of a name in our head, right this very minute, right? Hopefully only one and not two dozen, but anyone could think of that. But I do feel like one of the things that we do and, and I think there are probably better things or other things that could be done, but we really talk about our core values to potential employees in part, because of, as we ask them to give us examples of their exemplifying that, and as we talk about the examples in terms of our expectations, I sort of feel like it does—put somebody on notice is probably the wrong way to look at it—but in a certain way, we’re simply saying: “This is our workplace culture, and we expect you to align with that.” And I’m wondering what else you have seen be effective from the beginning, you know, before somebody has acted out and created all kinds of havoc for you?

Shola Richards:
You know, it’s interesting because the onboarding aspect is very critical to creating the culture. I found that using an analogy—or metaphor; I always get those two confused—but if you had a, if you had a glass of water—or better yet before there’s any water, you have a glass. And on the inside of the glass, there’s mud and there’s dirt and there’s all sorts of stuff.

Well you get some fresh water and you pour it into this dirty glass on the inside. It only takes a little bit of shaking before that fresh water turns brown. What I’ve seen is that we get these fresh faced people who are super-excited and we tell them about the mission and the vision and all those wonderful things that matter for an organization. And then they’re placed into that dirty glass where it’s like, “Oh, I give her about a month before she’s like the rest of us.” And it’s like, I am so conscious of getting good people and putting them in a bad situation where they can’t thrive because we can—onboarding’s best efforts can be thwarted so quickly with a toxic, unhealthy team. Because it’s like: “Oh, I love, I saw that video about what the vision and mission of this organization is. I just am so excited to work here.” “Oh, it’s not like that here. You believe that? How stupid are you?” And then before, you know it you’re like, oh, oh. And I’ve seen this happen so often. So I tend to focus my energy on really fixing the culture. So when you do bring in new people, the onboarding efforts are maximized, not minimized.

And I think that’s one of the things that we often don’t give as much attention to. Because when you see that happening over and over again, it’s like, we need to get to the root of like, “OK, what are you doing? Like I see that you are causing this rift and making it harder for people to be a part”—in having these very real conversations with people, like, “If you’re not happy talk, what can we do to help make you happy?” And to your point. Not everyone can be made happy, not everyone’s going to be in a situation where they feel good, but we have to have those discussions: “I know you’re not happy, if you’re not happy, but we’ve got to make a decision about how we’re going to do things going forward because this is not okay.”

Teresa Huizar:
You know, I wonder why you think people are so reluctant to address those kinds of things, because you know, I just personally have found that if you let them fester, it only gets worse. There’s just no value in not addressing it the first time it happens and every time it happens  until, you know, either they make a change to change their behavior, they make a change to be out of the organization, or you make the decision that they’re not going to be a part of the organization.

Shola Richards:
Right.

Teresa Huizar:
So why do you think, though, that many employers will allow that to go on? And I don’t think it’s just that people are busy. I mean, we’re all busy. So why is it that in some cultures it’s like: You can just do anything. Why is that?

Shola Richards:
That’s a wonderful question. Sorry. I said it again. But—

Teresa Huizar:
Oh my gosh.

Shola Richards:
But it’s always, I think one of the things that’s really tough about this is that, there’s a lot of people and it’s not like—people have a strange misconception that when you rise up the ranks to a certain level in an organization, you are used to having difficult conversations and/or you’re good at it, neither of which can be true. So oftentimes it’s easy to be like, “This is painful,” and humans, by nature, avoid discomfort and pain, and these conversations can be super uncomfortable.

And that’s really compounded if you don’t have the skill to have these conversations. Right. So from what I’ve seen is that these—and I say this often to teams and to leaders—what we allow is what will continue. And I think this is something that we have to kind of rip the band-aid off and discuss in our, in the leadership talk that we had last week for the conference and when I was talking to the folks at the CACs and all the Chapter leaders, it was really around this idea. And I shared the story around the buffalo versus the cow. And the idea of being the buffalo means you go into the storm and you do this really uncomfortable work, knowing that if you do push through, you will be better on the other side.

That’s what I’m hoping for. But I do understand why people don’t have these conversations. It’s like, it’s strangely illogical. Because if I were to have a cavity in my mouth and one of my teeth and be like, “Oh, I’m just not going to chew on that side of my mouth. I’m just going to kind of—“ I mean, it’s not like it’s going to heal itself. It’s only going to get worse and decay more and possibly move over to the next tooth that’s neighboring.

It requires an intervention and it requires us to be like: “This can’t continue.” Because the person who’s engaging in those behaviors, if they’re not checked, if they’re not told that this isn’t okay, they’re like: “All right. Well then I’m just going to do a little bit more. Hey, instead of me coming in 10 minutes late, I’ll come in an hour late.” Or: “Hey, instead of me, you know, undermining this person, I’m going to scream and curse at them.” Like it’s crazy how it actually progresses to—

Teresa Huizar:
It escalates over time.

Shola Richards:
It does, unless you stop the behavior. And it’s like having—I have a little dog here and he’s super sweet, but like in the beginning, when he was a puppy, he was starting to do some really questionable things. We had to kind of take him to training and make sure that we nip that in the bud so that he wasn’t like a full grown dog, RAWW! Like, attacking neighbors [laughter] when they would come over. It’s the same idea, setting those boundaries, clearly.

Teresa Huizar:
Yeah. You know, it’s interesting for us, we started—and this is not an advertisement for Crucial Conversations and Crucial Accountability, but yeah.

Shola Richards:
Oh, I love Crucial Conversations!

Teresa Huizar:
We had all of our supervisors and senior staff trained in it. And then we thought it would be great for mid-level managers. So then we had them training and then we decided, you know, for this to really be effective, the entire staff should have this. That way people understand why you’re having the crucial conversation with them and they’re not surprised by the accountability conversations—

Shola Richards:
Yes.

Teresa Huizar:
—that happen. And I have to tell you, it has been really powerful for our organization because I think what it took away was that feeling of: Why am I being picked on? It’s like, You’re not being picked on. [Laughter.]

Shola Richards:
Right! I love Crucial Conversations so I will go ahead and join in that advertisement because it’s one of those really cool programs that attacks difficult conversations in two ways. Right? So, one, it’s around the inner work that we have to do. It’s like this idea of like: The problem isn’t the problem. The problem is the story that we tell ourselves about the problem, which helps people to get into this idea of like, “All right. I can have this conversation.”

And then secondly, it gives you the tools to have them, how you should do it effectively, what every program should be like. And most groups do stop at the leaders when it comes to this type of training and it’s just like: You guys get it, and then you do what you need to do.

But including as many people as possible in the training is a wonderful, wonderful thing. And it creates that inclusion of: Hey, again, this is the expectation that we have here, that we’re going to have those difficult conversations. We’re going to lean in, and we’re going to have the courage to have those conversations and also the maturity to receive this without defensiveness, as someone engages us in conversation that may be difficult.

Teresa Huizar:
And you know, I was thinking about what you were talking about in terms of who holds who accountable. And what I have seen in our organization is that the sort of language and conversations happen. And sometimes we’re entirely at leadership unaware of it until somebody brings it up because they’ve done the right thing and they’ve had those accountability conversations with each other without that needing to have some intervention from on high—

Shola Richards:
Yes.

Teresa Huizar:
—or escalating that up. And I think that that is a real skill. You know, I think of it as professional development because you’re certainly not going to wind up in a leadership position or be good at that if you can’t have those kinds of conversations.

Shola Richards:
Correct.

Teresa Huizar:
But anyway, it’s just, I guess we’ve given them an enough of an advertisement. So all the listeners will be going on to their local bookstore or wherever and getting those now.

Shola Richards: [00:28:01]
Yes, Crucial Conversations and Crucial Accountability, both are fabulous. But to your point, Teresa, that you just made, which I just want to piggyback on that too. I think what’s also interesting is like when you see teams trained to—because a lot of teams that are dysfunctional, that when something goes wrong with the colleague, they run directly to the manager, like, you know, like two kids fighting that run to the parent. It’s like teams that are really intact and doing great jobs, they realize that we need to work this out, at least try to talk about it together. And then if we get nowhere, then it’s a way to escalate to management. But I also have a rule that I’ve had with people who used to report to me and with other teams that I work with as a consultant.

I believe that when people complain—which is fine, everyone has a right to complain. But my challenge to teams is that teams are not allowed, or individuals aren’t allowed to complain without bringing a proposed solution. It’s—

Teresa Huizar:
Thank you.

Shola Richards:
Right? So it’s like, if you’re going to be like, “Ah, Teresa, I don’t like what’s going on over here. You need to fix it.” It’s like: “Well, wait a second. Well, what, what do you—“ “I don’t know. You’re the boss, you figure it out.” So I was like, instead it’s the challenge of saying—and the solution has to be something more than “We’ll just fire everyone.” It’s got to be something more meaningful.

Teresa Huizar:
[Laughter.] Start over!

Shola Richards:
Start over! Yeah, exactly. That’s like, so I’m really big on, “OK. If we’re going to really make a meaningful difference here and you’re having an issue or a challenge, you must have given this some thought, because you brought it to me. What do you think we should do? What are some solutions that you have?” Because this strengthens the muscle, quite frankly, of being reliant, thinking of not having someone else saving the day all the time. And this is specifically true for leaders or people who aspire to be leaders as being in a position where you realize that you do have the power to solve many of the problems that you might not thought of before.

Teresa Huizar:
Well, and I think there’s the other issue. Part of what you’re trying to convey by what you’ve just described is that every employee owns any given problem that needs to be solved. Right? It’s not that there’s one person, you know, at the very top who owns all the issues or problems. It’s that, we create a workplace culture and we are collectively that culture.

It’s not like, it’s like, “Oh, wow. That workplace culture over there, it’s so toxic.” Um, if it’s toxic, it’s toxic [laughter] because of the entire, you know, organism. So it’s like, “Hmmm.”

Shola Richards: [00:30:37]
Exactly! And it’s like the willingness to look within. There’s a quote that I love that says “There is no single drop of rain that believes that it is responsible for the flood.”

Teresa Huizar:
Oh, I love that.

Shola Richards:
And it’s important to remember, like we are the raindrops, so we all play a role in this culture that we’re creating. It can’t be—it can’t be everyone else. It can’t be. And I often, when I’m talking to teams or talking to leaders and you, every now and then, you’d run into that one who is quick to blame others and make excuses.

And the one question that I use to kind of reset this behavior and it seemingly never fails, is when they’re starting to blame others or make excuses, I ask them directly: “OK. So what part of this situation do you own?” And what this does is, it interrupts the pattern of defensiveness, the pattern of blame others, the pattern of shifting blame. And there’s no squirming out of it. It’s like you have to answer it directly—

Teresa Huizar:
I was going to say, it’s like pinning a bug to the wall. [Laughter.]

Shola Richards:
Yeah, it’s like, you’re stuck! You can’t go anywhere! I mean, because very few adults—not saying all, but, but “I don’t own any of it! None of it.” I mean, usually they’re going to have a moment where they’re like, “Ugh, all right. Well, because he put it that way. I could have done—“ Perfect! Now let’s move with that.

Teresa Huizar:
Yeah. Yeah. So the other thing that I’m wondering, and follow-up to our conversation at Leadership, you talked a lot about resiliency, which I think honestly does not get talked about enough, both in terms of organizations and people. And what I loved, and frankly, what people who were there loved and filled the chat with, was these were very practical kinds of steps that anyone could do. And what I loved about it, it was what a person could do. I mean, there is an organizational responsibility to that as well, undoubtedly, all that. But there, it was also like: You don’t have to wait for the organization to be perfect. You can take these actions yourself.

What do you think is most important for people who are now practicing the things you taught them, to be thinking about or making a habit out of, or, you know, I don’t know. You tell me what’s the most important thing to make sure that this becomes, you know, practiced.

Shola Richards:
Oh gosh. This is like choosing between my kids, I’ll tell you. There’s so many things when it comes to resilience that are useful. And I really do appreciate the comment about the practicality, because I want to make sure that people can apply what they learn immediately.

There’s something … I’ll actually give some bonus material—

Teresa Huizar:
Oh, awesome.

Shola Richards:
—because we talked a lot. So some things that I didn’t have an opportunity to talk about in the conference, I will still share some as well. But one thing I think is very important is the concept of expecting a challenge.

Now, this seems so simple because I’m not saying that you—there’s a big difference between expecting a challenge and expecting things to go wrong. Those are not the same thing, right? So it’s not like, “Oh, I’m not going to … I have low expectations because everything fails, falls apart for me.” Like, that’s not what I’m saying. It’s like you pack an umbrella in case it’s going to rain.

So if you’re going back to in-person work, on-site work. And you’re like, all right. Be real that this may be uncomfortable for you at first. Don’t go into it, like, “It’s going to be fine. It’ll be just like it was before.” Like, maybe it won’t be. And once you have that realization of like, “OK. All right. So that was uncomfortable. I expected that and I’m built to be able to move past this. This is what I’m going to do to continue to move forward. I knew this was coming” versus people who are blindsided by the challenges. There was a, um, there was a guy and—I’m so—I’m said that I cannot remember his name off the top of my head—but he was captured during the Vietnam War and he spent like seven years, I think, captured as a prisoner of war. And he was asked a question: “What separated the ones who escaped and the ones who didn’t? The ones who made it out and the ones who didn’t?” He had a very surprising answer, and his answer was, “Oh, yeah. Without question, the ones who didn’t make it were the optimists.”

I feel like, whoa, it feels so—

Teresa Huizar:
Interesting.

Shola Richards:
—tell me more. So it’s like, well, they’re the ones who are like, “Oh, we’re going to be out by Fourth of July.” And it was like, “No, we’re going to be out by Labor Day.” “No, we’re going to be out by Christmas.” “We’re going to be out by Easter.” And then before we knew it, another year came, it’s Fourth of July again. And then they were just broken. They died, according to this man, of a broken heart. He on the other hand was like, “I may never get out. This is going to be a challenge, but what I’m going to do is to make the most of what I have the power to control.” And this was something that he was able to do to keep himself in a position where he was able to maintain his resilience, because—we’re talking about going back to work, not spending day and night in the hellish conditions of a Vietnam prison for years on end. But that’s what helped him to get through is the realization like, “I don’t know if I’m going to get out. Maybe I won’t. But what I can control is this day. I can do laps around my incomprehensively small cell to give myself some exercise. I can envision playing 18 holes of golf in my mind.” This is the difference, I feel is like, when you realize that you could face a challenge, then you’re not surprised or blindsided. Like he wasn’t, if he spent another Fourth of July or three Fourth of Julys in a row, he wasn’t surprised by it. He was just like, “This is the reality that I’m facing.”

And this is something that really compliments a lot of the things that I talked about in Leadership Conference, specifically around focusing on what you have the power to control, which is probably number one. But I also … oh gosh, again, like I said, this is really choosing between my kids. Because you said one thing, and I can’t. I can’t do this. I just can’t.

Teresa Huizar:
[Laughter.] You’re welcome to say more than one.

Shola Richards:
Okay, good. Because there’s so many. And I feel like one of the others is the mental game that we play with ourselves. The words that we say about ourselves to ourselves. When I see people who engage in thoughts that weaken them, like, “Oh, I’m no good at this. I’ll never figure this out. I’m not built for this.”

It’s important, considering the work that’s being done within child advocacy, to be in a position where you’re taking care of the thoughts that you’re saying about yourself. You’re not just engaging in self-care for self-care’s sake, but you’re really engaging in, “Hey, are these thoughts serving me? Are they going to allow me to be the best form of myself doing this work?”

And then doing the tough love forms of self-care. Instead of going to this—not saying not to go to this bar; take a nap or meditate—but I’m talking about the hard stuff. Like making sure you’re eating the right food. Asking for help. Going to a therapist. Setting boundaries. Removing yourself from toxic relationships. Many caregivers almost give themselves carte blanche and be like, “I can abuse my body when I’m off the clock by drinking a bottle of wine every night at the end of the day, because of what I do for all the people that I’m serving.”

So, true resilience is around doing those tough love things that are not going to harm—that maybe you tough at first to do, but once you push through it, you’ll be better for it on the other side.

Teresa Huizar:
I think you make such a good point about that, especially because I think if people aren’t, you know, having the bottle of wine, sometimes it’s the other way, just emotionally numbing.

Shola Richards:
Oh, yes.

Teresa Huizar:
You know, just consuming so much TV or something else so they don’t have to think about what they saw during the day or heard during the day. It’s like, and all of that is really hard work to address those things. But it’s so important to having a full, you know, a full life that feels present with your loved ones and … and all of those things.

Shola Richards:
Totally agree.

I think that’s one of the things that … this is such hard work, this resilience stuff. It’s like, it’s like a muscle, it’s a workout. It’s like—some people have this idea that … some people have this idea that you’re born resilient. I mean, I don’t know if that’s a thing or not. I haven’t met anyone like that, but I know this is a workout. Just like you wouldn’t go to the gym and do a couple of reps and be like, “I’m done, I’m as strong as I’m gonna get.” It’s like: Every day I have to show up and do my workout. Every day I have to show up and practice the things around resilience so I’m able to show up for my family, for my people who I work for, and for the community that I live in.

It’s just, I noticed the days where I don’t show up for myself that I’m not as strong as I could be. And I usually pay the price for that. So it’s worth reminding myself: Every day, I must show up.

Teresa Huizar:
Well, reminding all of us. We can all do with reminding ourselves. I think it’s a journey for all of us.

One of the things that I’m wondering about, you know, we’ve been talking about the pandemic, about workplace culture in general, returning to the office. In terms of, you know, not reflecting so much on the past, but looking toward the future, whether that’s trends or what’s exciting you personally, in terms of workplace, culture, developments, or other kinds of things.

You know, as our listeners are thinking about not just tomorrow and the next day and the next six months, but really looking further down the road, what should they be paying attention to? What should I be paying attention to? What should we all be paying attention to?

Shola Richards:
I think the one thing that is the trend that I am super-excited about because I’ve been kind of beating the drum on this before the pandemic started, was: I would always share with people that if you truly want to change the world, you have to deep dive into the soft skills. And I actually don’t even like that term “soft skills” because, but if they’re so soft—

Teresa Huizar:
They’re difficult! [Laughter.]

Shola Richards:
Right! Why are they so hard for so many people if they’re so soft? But it’s the idea that now people are starting to listen to that, like, “Oh, yeah, we do need to check in on people and see if they’re OK.” “Oh, yeah. We need to make sure that we’re touching base with our people and having meetings regularly.” “Oh, yeah. I have to make sure that a culture that I’m creating is healthy and conducive to team cohesion and work and productivity.” All these things you could argue they were just as important before, but you could get around to it when you were done with the real work.

Now, this is the real work that people are realizing this new normal, or the next normal, if you want to call it that. This next normal is going to really require people to lean into these skills and no longer put that on the back burner. And I think this is trending that way, which makes me so happy.

So when people get back in the office, yeah, there’ll be people who absolutely want to go back to business as usual and pretend that it’s 2019 again. But in addition to the pandemic, there’s also the civil/social unrest aspect. That’s also then a huge lightning rod during this time as well. So it’s like a lot it’s changed in the workplace since 2019.

Teresa Huizar:
There’s no going back really, you know, it’s, whatever that saying is about you can’t cross the same river twice. That’s really true. I don’t think a replay of 2019 is possible, but I think it’s, it’s true that there are people who long for that, you know.

Shola Richards:
Oh, yeah.

Teresa Huizar:
It feels to them like a simpler time with fewer challenges in it.

You know, like you, I feel excited about the future of the workplace and what these changes are going to mean for us. I mean, they’ve already made many changes and I expect that there will be others.

So I’m going to ask you the question I ask anyone who comes onto the podcast: I am sure that there’s something that I should have asked you and didn’t. Is there anything else that you really want to make sure that our listeners know before we close out?

Shola Richards:
Yeah, thank you for that. I think it’s, actually in a weird way, it’s kind of what I was about to touch on, too, just now is around the civil unrest and people of color who may be struggling through this time.

Teresa Huizar:
Yes.

Shola Richards:
It’s just a worthy endeavor to take the time to—and this goes for anyone who is listening to the podcast too—just take the time to—all people, to take the time to learn about the history of others, to really learn about some of the struggles, have empathy and understanding when people do share with you that these things are hard for certain people. I mean, for me, when George Floyd was murdered, that was a very tough time for me. It was something that was, it was super tough. And I was grateful for the people who listened and gave me the space to be able to share. But at the same time, I know there’s a lot of people of color who felt very alone during those times because it was business as usual. Because people didn’t want to have those difficult conversations. Like, “I don’t want to talk about this. It makes me uncomfortable.” But I think going forward, we need to have those discussions more frequently so that people can feel heard, included. And, quite frankly, like they belong.

Teresa Huizar:
You know, you raise such a good point. I mean, there’s no way to have a healthy workplace culture if people don’t feel included.

Shola Richards:
Yep.

Teresa Huizar:
So I think that you’re just raising such an important point and also that, this is a critical moment, I think for workplaces to not only, you know, just be known for putting out statements, but actually making sure that they’re looking at their practices at every level to make sure that we are, in fact, the welcoming place that we say we are and want to be. You know, those things that we aspire to.

Shola Richards:
That’s absolutely right. And I think that’s really what we’re talking about is like, how can we get to a point where everyone feels like they have a seat at the table? Everyone feels like they’re valued. Everyone feels like they’re important. That’s the work that we have to do. And I feel like we can do this together.

Teresa Huizar:
I just feel so encouraged. I feel like we are going to do that work both as a movement and you know, in the larger business and workplace community, I think there is a commitment to moving forward together. And I hope that that bears it out. And I’m certainly committed to that being the case at NCA and I know that CACs, are as well.

Thank you so much for joining us. It was a wonderful opportunity to catch up with you again and learn even more about this, which I know all our listeners will appreciate. Thank you, Shola.

Shola Richards:
Oh my gosh, Teresa. Thank you. It’s a huge honor. You’re changing the world with their work at NCA. So I’m so grateful to be here.

Teresa Huizar:
Thank you for listening to One in Ten. If you like this episode, please share it with a friend. And for more information about NCA and the work of Children’s Advocacy Centers, go to our website at www.nationalchildrensalliance.org.